HGH / Insulin / IGF

Discussion in 'Steroids' started by kingtung, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. kingtung

    kingtung Well-Known Member

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    Please dont quote this post (as i will revise it).

    Ok so this will probably be a lengthy post, didnt have the time to post it before. I will try to make it as concise as possible without getting into the complex mechanisms of action behind certain things. Please do respect the time/effort taken to create this thread. Alot of you know as been very logical in how i approach things (i enjoy dumbing down alot of complex concepts). 'Logic' is sometimes flawed in bodybuilding especially with the 'lift big to get big' (etc type of bullshit). So the only way to seive truth out of rubbish is through calculated experiments (trial/error) and recording findings and comparing them relative to seemingly logical information out there.

    HGH:
    Pretty much a miracle peptide, it will literally make you feel 16 again. I cannot give enough credit to this amazing peptide.

    To illustrate the non muscle-mediated effects (personnel; im very fine tuned with my body):
    The morning boners, extreme high levels of libido and lower-refractory period (the time period where you 'ejaculate' and get 'up' again), the amazing skin texture (women wont be able to resist), the nail growth, the hair growth, the deep 'REM' sleeps, higher level of IQ and intelligence,the re-uptake of GABA receptors (especially in my case since i fried mine due to EQ and abuse of androgens); hence general 'mental well being and less anxiety and clearer mindset.

    Also better blood work (cholesterol values and the likes). Aswell as making other drugs feel more (ie taking biotin a hair growth supplement + HGH and youll have greater 'rates' of growth then without it). That is gh is synergetic with many many compounds (T3/fat burners and ofcourse AAS which is discussed below).

    Will also develop facial beauty (cosmetic side-effects): more pronouced jaw line (square head), higher cheek bones, muscles around eye socket thicken up, more andorgenic siddeffects in general. You pretty much start looking very 'masculine'.

    Massester muscles and the temporalis being prime examples:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Other facial muscles (not mentioned above that will develop):

    [​IMG]

    HGH for mass (ie bodybuilding):

    Now in regards to muscle growth, hgh has various pathways in which is acts as an anabolic peptide (anabolic means build up of complex structure from smaller more simple structures in science; fat build up from fatty acid is also anabolic). So be careful how you use the word anabolic. Now in regards to 'positive' anabolic growth (muscle), HGH is primarily mediated by IGF, but has other effects, it has its own fat burining properties (hence the synthesis of peptide frag 171-196), it induces lipolysis (fatty acids stored within fat cells are broken down released in blood). It has positive effects on hypertrophy. It also makes alot of gear feel 'more', for example if your on 500mg of test-e it will feel like 1000mg (insulin wont do this; ive tried both). If your not on HGH; cap your dose at 1,5gram (2grams TOPS; orals included). Im telling you ive taken 3600mg of eq (perm fried my gaba receptors and now have anxiety-attacks very easily) and 2100mg of tren, smashed grams and grams of test. All these will do 1 thing; lethargy and you regress backwards. If you think the pros in the 70s didnt abuse your delusional; they all did, but they learn to read their body and found out at 2g+ without HGH alot of sides:gains ratio drops.

    In summary it will add muscle slowly (on it's own; study posted below a rare and interesting one), but that's not what the main use is. GH makes you look like you have a lot more muscle than you do. Remember it's an amazing compound in terms of decreasing bodyfat while increasing fullness (thus roundness). So when you're sub 8% bodyfat and your muscles are full, 190lbs looks like 220, and you look impressive. If you are confused by fullness (ie roundness), think your first cycle of dbol (but at a much lower weight). Basically means alot of nutrients (glycogen, positive nitrogen retention, intramuscular water, intramuscular fat all in one spot: your muscles, ie plumped up baloon that gh15 always talks about hence phil-insulana). lol.

    Doses (gh15 describes it very well):
    Now your maybe thinking, time for me to sell my car and use 15iu+ of gh. Wrong, if your not using insulin (esp at the 10-15iu mark), it will be a huge waste. Ive used 20iu+, 40iu a day for 2 weeks. Your liver will begin to swell up, youll be sleeping all day, cannot go to the gym. Blood glucose levels will be out of whack (gh increase BGL, insulin drops it; hence why they work together; more on that later). If your planning on keeping clean classic physique with 'dense' muscles (not inflated insulin muscle), use gh only around 5-10IU mark.

    A nice quote by gh15 (and a friend of mine once mentioned something very similar he said this about HGH "once you start that shit your never coming off, because you never stop growing on that stuff")

    HGH gut (myth) and visceral fat:

    Visceral fat: its what alot of people refer to as 'THE GH GUT', visceral fat is a description for fat inbetween internal organs (esp where IGF receptors are highly concentrated near the abdominal area). You look 'flat' from front view, but when you sit down to eat and look at your self in a side-view you look like you swallowed a 60inch tv screen (ie protuding gut).

    In summary of the above quote; gh makes your stomach look beautful and the chances of the dreaded 'turtle hgh gut' is all a myth. Again hgh increases fullness so with a lean 6 pack, youll look 'good'. If you want to destroy this 'aesthetic' feature, up your food (huge amount of food also cause a gut; due to clogging up of insides and hence 'beer' belly, ie super relax and protuded 'deep' muscles) and up your slin. So combining food + slin, disaster from both worlds.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013
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  2. kingtung

    kingtung Well-Known Member

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    Insulin
    Now as previously mentioned HGH makes alot of things work better (synergy), but this is especially the case with insulin, and what happens is simple:
    massive hGH + massive insulin = massive levels of IGF = massive growth

    This relationship, which does not occur naturally as GH is the antagonist of insulin (GH acts as an antagonist to insulin in many ways. Exo Insulin lowers BG, exo HGH increases it. Insulin stores fatty acids into cells, hGH releases it) is what causes the liver to dump massive massive amounts of IGF. This is why gh15 is always crazy about 'kigtropin' primarly because it was thought to be real igf-lr3 receptor grade (which i think the chinese accidently stumbled upon, since insulin derivatives can be a byproduct of hgh production).

    FDA approved igf:
    [​IMG]

    Important notes regarding insulin:


    Protocols:

    Insulin has 2 primary ways of growth;
    1) IGF
    2) Nutrient utilization/partitioning.
    If your going for the IGF route whilst keeping nutrient utilisation at bay (since this is another way slin adds visceral fat), Id opt for protocol #1 (assuming you dont want to be an insulinogenic balloon and destroy your lines; not #2, since that is for size. Remember in general carbs are they key to growth; so combining that with insulin (which relies on carbs), you got the potential for growth (not necessarily beautiful if abused however).

    Protocol 1:
    Mon/Wed/Fri (higher carb days). Each day consists of 3 shots of insulin. Each shot of insulin 12-15IU (total: 36-45iu a day) Have a hydrolysed protein 30 min before hand. Inject, have a 300ml orange juice with like 15gram glutamine (it is the one thing that you can simply take with juice and never go hypo on insulin. It is a glycogenic amino acid (that is it stabilizes blood sugar levels even in the presence of high insulin levels). You can add like 5gram creatine if needs be. Drink your orange juice over 1-2 hour period. After that have like a complex carb meal (cup of white/brown rice with chicken breast). This is the 'safest' way not to destroy lines (ofcourse assumes your using hgh with it).

    Protocol 2:

    I only have 1 photo of when i was on hgh+slin (sorry for lightning; but you can see what i mean regardless):
    [​IMG]
    Mind you i only used slin for 1 week and 'blew' up, was on 20iu of gh for 3months prior. Didnt like slin; too fake for me. Esp glyocgen supercompensation; i knew half of it wasnt real.

    Improper use of insulin (leads to estrogenic fat deposits; due to higher fat build up hence aromatization, aswell as visceral fat). Learn the hard way:
    [​IMG]
    Was like on 1gram test there, 60iu of slin + 600gram dextrose (1iu=10gram rule). No hgh. I had ~40inch waist here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013
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  3. hashish

    hashish meow

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    In for the read !

    Bout time lol
     
  4. DrSwole

    DrSwole Celebrity Amongst Us

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    good job brother [MENTION=336]kingtung[/MENTION]. i tried to simplify it for a few guys asking, but they need the science behind it to understand.

    one thing i gotta mention, slin without gh isnt pointless, you will get bigger (it helped me with my stupid metabolism get to over 90kg haha) BUT, yes you will get a mini gut when you start to take a fair bit.

    i was considering getting some GH just to run it 4-5iu 5x a week just for the synergy with AAS... but now im thinking 8iu 3x a week might be a better option, haha higher doses in 1 go...

    great read. should be a sticky as well i think [MENTION=1309]Eagle[/MENTION]
     
  5. gs69azza

    gs69azza Resident Computer Nerd

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    my next blast I'll be running protocol 1 it seems. See how I go, yewww!!! <3

    M/W/F (High carb days)
    T/T/S/S (Low carb days - oats in the morning only it seems)

    AAS + GH + Slin = Fucking. Huge.
    This is what I want.

    Sooooooo glad to read this thread, been looking forward to it for so long


    One thing I have noticed on GH is this exactly:

    I may be up weight for 2 weeks, then all of a sudden drop weight and be less than what I was 2 weeks before it.
     
  6. Potatohead

    Potatohead Well-Known Member

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    Fuck yes.
     
  7. deadlift

    deadlift Well-Known Member

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    kingtung PHD in bodybuilding
    Good read thank you
     
  8. rovingraider

    rovingraider Well-Known Member

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    Top thread. Thanks for the info and being so open with your own use/research. Def food for thought.
     
  9. Banderas

    Banderas mega fauna

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    Regarding the two photos of yourself that you've posted, how far apart are they time wise?

    How rapidly did the visceral layer of fat appear?

    Were you aware of the (negative) changes happening but it was a process you couldn't prevent?

    Awesome thread though mate. I've always wanted to talk to someone who's run HGH/Insulin properly.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
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  10. aussie_steve

    aussie_steve Retired unverified bigrig

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    Awesome read and agree 100% about eating to grow, back in the golden days of bbing do you really think those guys counted every single calorie and macro? Not a chance it was just eat a decent amount of clean food and train heavy
     
  11. Gruph

    Gruph Doherty's Gym

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    nuff said im gona get on the kent
     
  12. DrSwole

    DrSwole Celebrity Amongst Us

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    in for results!!! dis is gon be good!
     
  13. Big A

    Big A Well-Known Member

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    In for the read

    Kingtung with the goods as always
     
  14. VanMan

    VanMan Secret Squirrel

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    Very tempting stuff. Its not a one size fits all as with everything but some great info. I have used slin on its own with great results it does like a large cycle though so tempting to do the mutant stack but then i would have to compete :)
     
  15. kingtung

    kingtung Well-Known Member

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    1) 1 year apart

    2) visceral fat appeared over incorrect useage of slin (with massive carbs) over 2-3 months. Didnt pick up on it, since my upper body was bigger (due to glyocgen supercompensation). So i was not aware of it.

    3) Should be answered in 2.
     
  16. harmankardon1

    harmankardon1 Well-Known Member

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    should be sticky, agree completely slin and aas alone isn't a great combo.
     
  17. sandman2040

    sandman2040 Well-Known Member

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    Really interesting stuff, thanks [MENTION=336]kingtung[/MENTION]

    Saw you ripping into Mike Arnold, too, over at BSL ;)
     
  18. Guerrillero

    Guerrillero Genie

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    Excellent thread [MENTION=336]kingtung[/MENTION] !!
     
  19. jimmy5bly

    jimmy5bly Well-Known Member

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    Great thread [MENTION=336]kingtung[/MENTION], very interesting.

    What are everyone's thoughts on running just GH alone? I know it is preferable to run with oils, but I'm thinking of giving it a 6 month cycle, without any oils, as soon as I finish my current test cycle. The goal being to firm up the waist, while continuing muscle growth (even though at a much slower rate).
     
  20. kingtung

    kingtung Well-Known Member

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    Waste of money; unless your doing the 'anti-aging' or 'pct' type protocol then its fine.

    But if its for muscle gain, save your money.
     

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